tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-661709996741316748.post2595953659889013955..comments2023-11-18T19:14:29.891-07:00Comments on Celebrating the Grand Canyon: VISITING BEAVER FALLS IN GRAND CANYON NATIONAL PARKjeff ingramhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01736102579169959875noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-661709996741316748.post-52784680219913835062022-01-06T23:58:48.604-07:002022-01-06T23:58:48.604-07:00Why is it worth such a fuss just to avoid paying t...Why is it worth such a fuss just to avoid paying the people who were here first a measly $45???<br />Unbelievable to be seeing such a peak colonialist mentality in 2022. Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07358671409112692761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-661709996741316748.post-71075039553554198962022-01-06T23:57:17.473-07:002022-01-06T23:57:17.473-07:00Why is it such a big deal to just pay the people t...Why is it such a big deal to just pay the people that were here first the measly $45? I can’t believe I’m witnessing this peak colonialist attitude in 2022. Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07358671409112692761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-661709996741316748.post-8582026345435145322022-01-04T12:30:46.539-07:002022-01-04T12:30:46.539-07:00This is disgraceful. These "laws" and &q...This is disgraceful. These "laws" and "expansions" were all created by the US after seizing this land from indigenous peoples. They legally have so little left of what was once their home. Respect their wishes. It's the only reasonable thing to do. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-661709996741316748.post-44892635716912536532018-07-30T15:50:30.114-07:002018-07-30T15:50:30.114-07:00The actual official map is pretty low-resolution, ...The actual official map is pretty low-resolution, and I have never seen a cleaned-up version. The "official" map by the NPS Cartographer does not match the congressional map in a number of places, and that office keeps confidential the documents etc they used to justify their choices. I have, in my various posts under the tab "Boundaries" tried to track down and explain in a public way how the line runs. <br />I have reproduced parts of the congressional map in various posts. <br /><br />Because the scale of the Act's map is so large and the line is not aimed at being precise to the point of being capable of being referrable to exact features, we end up trying to explicate it using words, which is the case for the line coming from Ukwalla Point across the top of Beaver Falls to Yumtheska Point.<br /><br />I have no idea if the reservation is monumented. The description of the line as "1/4 mile from the rim" boggles the mind as far as putting down any markers -- which was never intended anyway. Everybody was supposed to cooperate and get along, under the guidance of the Secretary of the Interior. <br />And to return to your last point: I agree, but since NPS keeps its evidence "confidential", I can only describe and write about what I know, remember, and have documentation for. So I am confident about the Reservation boundary crossing at the top, upstream end of Beaver Falls being pretty solid.jeff ingramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01736102579169959875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-661709996741316748.post-64281654977629892452018-07-30T07:53:53.330-07:002018-07-30T07:53:53.330-07:00The map seems like a rather important part of your...The map seems like a rather important part of your research, yet the image you post as the "Official" map is a low-resolution scan of what is clearly labeled a half-sized reproduction. <br /><br />The real map would seem to be an important piece of evidence given the legislative language, and incorporation by reference into the act itself. <br /><br />Why not post a higher-resolution copy? Have you obtained one?<br /><br />One would also assume the reservation line is monumented. Where are the markers on the ground? <br /><br />There's that saying about strong claims needing strong evidence... taking a viewpoint on a boundary which contradicts that of the NPS would seem to be such a situation. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06379870004655722410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-661709996741316748.post-83436892477398778822018-07-27T15:49:28.133-07:002018-07-27T15:49:28.133-07:00All the land from the Grand Canyon south toward wh...All the land from the Grand Canyon south toward what is now I-40 was Havasupai land in the years before whitefolk arrived. The 1975 Enlargement Act had to deal with the changed situation created by United States when it set up the National Forest and National Park, in the process, doing a taking of almost all Havasupai patrimony. Land was not just simply returned to the Havasupai; it was complicatedly returned to the Havasupai, with many requirements to satisfy those who -- Rightly -- believed the land to be of the highest Park quality. One of those requirements was to set the boundary crossing at the top of Beaver Falls. Others set the boundary on the Great Thumb back 1/4 mile from the rim, and tangled up access to adjoining parts of the Park. Etc. The Havasupai accepted these conditions and compromises, in return for repatriation of a chunk of their pre-whitefolk lands. <br /> So we have a law, we have a Havasupai-written land use plan, we have people who cherish the Grand Canyon, we have people who wish to visit the place. The idea of all that legalistic apparatus is to guide decision-making and activities by all parties -- to protect what the Havasupai accomplished for themselves, and to protect the values and appropriate uses of the Grand Canyon as a place of world-wide worth. jeff ingramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01736102579169959875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-661709996741316748.post-3552922184921878282018-07-07T04:12:56.463-07:002018-07-07T04:12:56.463-07:00Was this not ALL tribal land prior to the enlargem...Was this not ALL tribal land prior to the enlargement act? Who GAF about the border? Why not just pay the Havasupai the money? If you can afford a guided rafting trip down the Grand Canyon you should be able to afford $45 to visit Beaver Falls. The Havasupai sure as hell aren't getting rich off it. One trip in to Supai and you can see that. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11486272480857358565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-661709996741316748.post-18457422125489310152018-06-15T12:48:20.712-07:002018-06-15T12:48:20.712-07:00Amy
The maps the Park sent me(beaver falls) are no...Amy<br />The maps the Park sent me(beaver falls) are not correct as far as I can tell. The Park is recognizing a boundary that does not exist. Jeff is the expert. If one reads the legal description in the 1975 enlargement act you will see that it is not specific enough to draw boundaries as some cartographer took liberty at doing. In this case one mustlook at the intent of the legislation as Jeff has done. Pretty Obvious that all of Beaver falls was intended to be in the Park. How do we get it corrected? <br />wally rist Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-661709996741316748.post-37865645107145492062018-06-15T00:29:09.183-07:002018-06-15T00:29:09.183-07:00Thanks for this comment. I will write a blog entry...Thanks for this comment. I will write a blog entry to deal with it more fully. But in brief, the reason that the wording was needed in the congressional documentation is just because the official map (and the later BIA map based on it) is not on a detailed enough scale to make the crossing point clear. I can only surmise that the error about the crossing point arose because various cartographers (starting in the 1980's) did not do due diligence, and were therefore ignorant of congressional intent as expressed in the documents I reproduce in this entry. In this case, words speak more loudly than pictures (map). jeff ingramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01736102579169959875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-661709996741316748.post-59895889922476374452018-06-05T13:11:38.138-07:002018-06-05T13:11:38.138-07:00As an NPS employee who works in this specific area...As an NPS employee who works in this specific area, i would urge you to look closely at the map that you have provided as your evidence. The topo map shows that Lower Beaver Falls is in park land, but upper Beaver Falls is squarely in Havasupai land. When you do the up and over hike from the creek, you enter tribal land, which, as we charge to enter GCNP, the tribe reserves the right to charge visitors to their land. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12165032805432500228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-661709996741316748.post-370580839219105792018-05-23T06:53:10.378-07:002018-05-23T06:53:10.378-07:00Thanks Jeff...
Perhaps the current Park administra...Thanks Jeff...<br />Perhaps the current Park administration should take note.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com